Unknown Speaker 0:07 Hello, welcome to it's okay to feel with Jennifer and known a nominee OC podcast where we explore mental health topics that help you feel your feelings and feel a little less alone. We're so happy you're here. Now, on to the show. Unknown Speaker 0:25 Hello and welcome to it's okay to feel a podcast by Nam yo See? And by me known wells and by my friend and co host, Jennifer Lynn. Hello, Jennifer. Unknown Speaker 0:40 Hello, how are you? Unknown Speaker 0:42 I am great. I'm great. I'm great, because we just had a wonderful conversation with Dr. Kristina. Kristina is a therapist. And this episode's all about therapy. And I love therapy therapy is my jam. Unknown Speaker 1:00 What kind of jam, marble aid? That's pretty good. Unknown Speaker 1:04 They're awesome. And I love that we had this conversation because we need to knock down the walls that therapy is only for like crazy people or people who have big problems. And I mean therapies for everybody to figure out their journey better, more fluidly. Unknown Speaker 1:23 Therapy is for everybody. And really excited for you guys to listen to this, this interview with Dr. Kristina. And yeah, but before we get into it, though, I wanted to just have a chat here with my co host and friend Jennifer about therapy and our own sort of personal experiences with therapy. So, Jennifer, you you actually mentioned in our chat briefly with Dr. Christina, that you've tried therapists out, but it just hasn't worked out for you. Yeah, I'm curious. Like, I'm curious to learn a bit more about that. Unknown Speaker 2:08 what's what's going on there? Unknown Speaker 2:11 I don't remember. Well, I, the first step is I went to six, but I don't know what kind of therapist he was. But he gave me a panda. And then I left. Um, I don't know, like I have I struggle. My worth is like tied to money, and I struggle spending money on myself. So I've tried like a variety of options from sliding scale, but the only sided scale I found were Christian therapists, and I'm not a Christian. So I felt like I had to, like, hide who I am in order to afford therapy, or tried to get, you know, convinced that I'm not Jewish, um, or like I either judged them because I felt like they didn't struggle with things that I've struggled with. So I felt like they weren't necessarily equipped to handle how I was feeling. Even if I felt like those feelings were silly. I even had one therapist break up with me. Like, she tried to break up me for like, a few weeks, and I'm an idiot, and I still gave her like 80 bucks each time I was there. And she kept saying like, therapies like shoes, you probably should try and a lot of shoes before you choose a pair of shoes to buy. And like wow, yeah. So and I still, I was like, Huh, Alright, here's your ad dollars. And I came back like the next week. And finally, she was like, look, I think you should find another therapist. And I'm like, I was just broken up with what she's fine. She was more woowoo than I would have liked. Like, she wanted me to be a tree in the first in the first session, which that is fine for some people. That's not necessarily you know, what I wanted at the time, so I should have just taken that and find a new one. But I don't know. I still I've never found one that I'm like, superduper comfortable with. Unknown Speaker 3:59 Yeah, yeah. And that's okay. I you know, you'll hear it in the episode, the interview episode. The episode The interview with Dr. Hasina. That, it sometimes it takes time and also, I think it's important to know that therapy, maybe not for everyone, and that's okay. You know, for me, it's been a crucial tool in my mental health, and for you, maybe not and that's okay. Like, I think when it comes to mental health, there are so many different tools that can help us and guide us and therapy is just one of many, you know, for me therapy, like the first time I went to therapy It was after I got back from Wales, I studied abroad in Wales, my sophomore year in college. And I was also very anorexic. Like, on on death's door anorexic. And I went to this therapist that My family found and I just, I think I was kind of shut down. I didn't, I was still not sure of like, the traumas I was experiencing and the depression, I was feeling and experiencing. And I just kind of went through the motions. And I think, you know, having conversations with people about their therapeutic experiences, that's pretty common, like, for the first time is like you want it, you go through the motions, like, maybe you're there, because a family member wants you there, or what have you. And it took, it took a number of years before I found, the therapists that I'm seeing now and still go to see, you know, you know, on a semi regular basis, because therapy for me, just allows me to kind of get out of my own head a bit. You know, it allows like, just a different perspective. And I think when it comes to like, our mental health, like, different ideas and perspectives, and people and other people are crucial, right? Like, as much as this culture tells us, we need to like be these like, singular beacons of strength. And independent, the reality is we need each other. And therapy is just another reminder of that, I Unknown Speaker 6:20 think, what was like the, what made you feel like this was the right therapist for you? Like, what are the cues? As someone who has never found like a fit? Obviously, it's like, what made you feel like this? Was it? Unknown Speaker 6:37 That's a great question. I think it was a combination of things. I think, one was the fact that I was ready. Right? I like I, you really have to be ready yourself. And you have to know what that means for yourself, too. And so for me, it was, you know, for years prior to that, I started sort of processing, you know, the traumas I experienced and things like that, through writing in it, that was kind of like an initial step that I needed to do even prior to therapy. And then as I started sharing a little bit, you know, of my writing with friends and maybe sharing a little bit online, I got comfortable with the vulnerability of that experience. And I felt like, Okay, I think I've done some things on my own, that made me feel a little bit more comfortable and sharing and being vulnerable. Now, I want to, like level up, you know, in a way, right, and allow a professional to kind of, like, help me unpack some of this stuff. And way we're in wayfind, through some of these things that are difficult, you know, and that are uncomfortable. But, you know, she, my therapist, she just saw me for who I was, and made me feel safe and comfortable. And we also made out which, you know, I'm just kidding, we didn't make out. I should have said that. I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding. That's a joke. We didn't make out. But no, Unknown Speaker 8:11 this is wife Jessica. Unknown Speaker 8:12 Yes. Yeah, exactly. No, I mean, she just made me feel safe. She, she made me feel comfortable. And it's why I'm still seeing her today. Unknown Speaker 8:24 I'm slightly jealous. Unknown Speaker 8:27 Like I said, their therapy may not be for you. And that's, that's okay. And for folks listening, who have been through a similar experiences, Jennifer, you know, therapy just might not be for you. And that's okay. But I would encourage you to give it a shot if you have the means to do so. That's and that's another thing. Another piece of it, that we talked about in the interview that's coming up is, is the accessibility to therapy, right? Like the, you know, you mentioned like the cost of it, and it's costly. And it shouldn't be like it just shouldn't be and Dr. Christina talked about, like, how it should be part of our curriculum and education and I concur completely. Like that's, that's like that piece of it. Like, that's another thing that I want to bring into, like, the feeling human collective is like that type of education and that type of work. Because, you know, clearly the system isn't doing it, you know, clearly the, you know, I don't I don't know what needs to change, you know, other than, you know, keep voting locally, keep voting, you know, doing that stuff, you know, but I don't know I it's such a like, huge system wide change that needs to happen. Unknown Speaker 9:47 It's like a whole mind shift change. And the hard part is like hat if it's a bunch of older people making decisions for people they don't know we're really care about, then how I mean, that's like the hardest type of mind. To change, unfortunately, um, yeah, the only thing we can do is like, I guess, work within locally and get our voices heard the best we can. And I mean, I hope but that is a really good point, like, you would have to be very active, like trying to change your current like school system in order to make that happen. Like, there would be a lot of hoops to jump through. Unknown Speaker 10:30 Yeah, and and maybe you like jumping through hoops Unknown Speaker 10:36 for that, because, Unknown Speaker 10:38 you know, you're fighting against a legacy and and decades of just, this is how we do it, right? That mindset that exists in education that exists in medicine that exists in corporate America, this mindset of like, this is how we do it. But the reality is, you know, talking to you listeners, like we each have capacity for change, and impacting change in our communities. And I think it starts with talking about our mental health, it starts with talking about therapy, and talking about the wonders that therapy can bring you and things like that. It's one heart at a time. Like, that's, that's how I like to think think of it because otherwise it feels too overwhelming. Unknown Speaker 11:28 So you mentioned earlier writing, what are what do you think are some other ways that people if they either can't find a therapist, or don't have the financial means can find a therapist? Like what other things do you think people can try doing to help themselves? Hmm. Unknown Speaker 11:46 Yeah, I think that, you know, there are myriad things. And I think a key is that there are some universal things that can help but they're also so much unique things that that really only maybe speak to you, but some things that, you know, can help us, you know, through hard times, or through getting to know ourselves better, you know, certainly writing certainly, you know, practices like mindfulness, you know, creating safe spaces with people like I, you know, I started the feeling human collected to be like, a space for people to really come together and to, like, allow, allow you to see, like, the beauty of, of that connection can be and what empathy can do to our mental health and, and I think so, like, really just creating little communities and pockets of communities where you feel safe enough to talk about these things. Because it's, you know, the reality is like, it's cool to talk about this stuff. It is cool. Like we, I'm, we are the coolest people on the planet is clearly what I'm trying to say. Just kidding. But it's cool. Like it. I mean, I say that sort of ingest a little bit, but the reality is, it's cool to get to know yourself, it's cool, you're like a, you're like a journeyman you're, you're on an adventure to like, learn more about who you are. And that process allows you to better connect with others to grow to heal, to, to, to, to continue making an impact on your community and the world. And that is, that is like a beautiful ripple effect that like the having these conversations and therapy and stuff that that can that can happen. Unknown Speaker 13:47 I do agree with that. Um, Unknown Speaker 13:50 well, thank you. I don't need your approval. But Unknown Speaker 13:53 you do find one of the most important people in the world so that way you said, the coolest people in the world. Yeah. Yeah. I will also say creativity has been great for me, I'm not a good writer I have I tend to have an issue with myself with like, allowing myself things like allowing myself to spend money on myself for therapy, allowing myself to read a book that might be beneficial, like, but the one thing I have allowed myself, I know I have issues Unknown Speaker 14:28 is like Unknown Speaker 14:29 hey, Jennifer. Yes, you deserve it. You are worthy of all of the things that fill your heart. Unknown Speaker 14:36 Oh, thank you. Unknown Speaker 14:38 I don't know if my toddler agrees with that anymore. Probably should have taken more action before he was born. Oh, he Unknown Speaker 14:44 knows nothing. He knows nothing. Unknown Speaker 14:47 He thinks he knows everything. Unknown Speaker 14:50 Sure, he's a toddler, Unknown Speaker 14:51 but drawing out my feelings which ended up turning into like my whole business. Like it's literally how I started getting myself out of like, what I call a The dirt depressed burrito state, which is I literally just spent hours like rolling on the floor crying like I was bad. And I started, I could talk to anyone about what how I was feeling and like literally and figuratively, like I had trouble speaking about what I was feeling about. And so I started drawing like encouraging things that I wish someone would tell me back, if I was able to tell them things. Unknown Speaker 15:25 And then, oh, beautiful. I love that. Unknown Speaker 15:27 Thank you. And then it kind of spiraled into like, like a life meaning, like helping other people not have to go through what I've gone through. And that's not to say like, if you start trying to like this will become your life meeting, either. It's just what happened to me personally. Unknown Speaker 15:43 Yeah, it is. It is a I'm hearing you say that, like gives me goosebumps? Because it does does. It's like it's a release in a way, like, it's a language actually is what I'm trying to say is like, you didn't have the words yet to process it verbally. So you used your talent for art. Right? And, and you're able to process it that way, which is beautiful. Unknown Speaker 16:09 Thank you. And boy, if you saw those drawings, now it's laughable. I know, that's the best part about writing I'm sure to or other creative, like outlets. And I say that, like everyone is creative. Creativity is not only for like, a breed artists, like there are so many ways to be creative. And the best part about that is looking back and being like, Whoa, I didn't grow. Who knew that? Whoa. Thank goodness for that. As long as you just keep on tricking. Unknown Speaker 16:41 Yeah. Yeah. And there's this idea that we as humans are this is it's like a feeling we get and maybe it's a pressure from all of the things but this feeling that like, we need to be good and positive and, okay. And, you know, one of like, the goals of this podcast truly and certainly of this conversation here is to remind people that it's okay to struggle. Like it's, it sucks, and but it's just part of the human condition. It's, it's, its ups and downs, it's brights and darks. Like I like to say it's, it's part of the tapestry of what makes you special. And so it's okay to feel like feelings are messy feelings are, you know, weird and uncomfortable sometimes, and like, what am I doing with this thing? You know, so, just I wanted to bring that piece into it because I know for me, like going through therapy. It has, you know, it hasn't always been hunky dory, you know. I am mixed. I'm going through EMDR therapy right now and for the listeners. Unknown Speaker 17:54 Oh, yeah. Unknown Speaker 17:55 It's a it's a I desensitize. I just know, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, reprocessing, I can say that eye movement, desensitization, desensitization and reprocessing. There we go right now, why Unknown Speaker 18:12 don't you just tell me what it is? Unknown Speaker 18:15 So it's really, um, I it's really a tool for trauma, and unpacking and unlearning trauma. So it it it started, I think it started EMDR started in, gosh, I'm going to get this so wrong. Well, it started, I think therapists started using it to help with PTSD specifically. And it has since grown into this thing to just help with trauma in general. And I've been doing EMDR therapy to help with certain childhood traumas. I grew up with a father who was very violent and difficult. And so just processing some of some of those experiences. And the way it was described to me is, well, there's two ways. One is like, you know how when you're sleeping, your eye, your eyes are moving, moving. Like you can see a little bit of movement behind the eyelids. And the way EMDR is supposed to sort of approximate that experience. Because when you're sleeping, your brain is like, it's going back and forth, left to right, left to right, left, right. And it's it's, it's kind of a healing process. It's a recovery process. And EMDR therapy is like you can do with light or you can do with buzzers, and I hold the other buzzers, one in my left hand, one my right hand, and then it goes back and forth, buzzing left and right, left and right and supposed to sort of approximate that feeling and that experience. And so it allows you to go back to specific traumatic experience, and to look on it as your present self, right as your adult self. And to, you know, hopefully give your younger self some kindness and some grace and some understanding, to eventually be able to reintegrate those traumatic memories so that you're not stuck there. So the next time you have a feeling that like triggers that traumatic memory, it's not so triggering, it's not so impactful. It's just oh, you remember it, and you kind of are able to kind of move on because that memory has been reintegrated into your body is the idea of it. Unknown Speaker 20:38 Okay, here's a good, I think it's a good question. I'm just telling you, there's a good question. And it kind of relates back to something or not back, but forward to what Dr. Christina was talking about, is that we've made so much progress in cycles, psychology, therapy, psychotherapy, how, how do you kind of like, introduce people to all these new, not systems like techniques, because that kind of sounds like, really hard to process to me, like that type of therapy. And, but I'm sure there's a lot of different ways that people might feel that way. So what do you think is a good way to, like, introduce people to all these different unique ways to try and help people? Hmm. Unknown Speaker 21:28 I think, I mean, I don't think I did a great job of it. I think, but I do think breaking them down into, like, simple understandings of the things like, you know, Dr. Christina said in our interview, therapy is like a conversation. And I think that is important, because we do have these big ideas about what therapy is, and media tells us, it's, you know, this and that. And that's not true. And so when we hear Dr. Christina say, therapy is just like conversation that, you know, that makes me feel like, oh, okay, like, this is just a chat. Like, this is just a conversation. It's about like setting the expectation tone that like, this is a safe, easy space. I'm here with you. Now I see you. And so I think approaching any anything that way is important, right? Is like reminding people that we're in this together, that I'm here to help guide you where you need to go. Right, as opposed to like, you know, like having to perform in some way. I think like, some people have told me in my conversations, like, when you go to therapy, you feel like you have to perform you feel like you have to like, Am I doing this? Right? You said that even like, Am I doing this right? And there's no right or wrong, there's just what you ultimately want to get out of it. And sometimes that's not clear at first, and that's okay, too. You know, so I think we can wrap it up there. listeners, thank you for being here. We're very excited to take you on this. It's okay to feel journey because it is okay to feel and I hope you enjoy the interview with Dr. Christina about therapy, we really kind of dive deep and it's great. It's a great conversation. Before we get to plugs and things and resources, just wanted to remind you that it's okay to feel is for informational and education, no and or entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for medical or psychiatric advice, diagnosis or treatment. We are just silly Billy's and but we have lived experience. So the point of that disclaimer is that we're not therapists. We're just we're just like you guys. We also have a another disclaimer that Jennifer will say, Unknown Speaker 24:00 Okay, I am excited because it's okay to feel is funded by the orange county health care agency. Oh see HCA behavioral health services Coronavirus, aid relief and economic security, the cares Act, which means that we get to do this amazing journey with you because of them. And we're very grateful. Unknown Speaker 24:20 We are indeed and before we go, Where can the listeners out there? Connect with this show and tell them a little bit about, I guess where they can connect with you, Jennifer? Sure. Unknown Speaker 24:37 So you'll be able to find the show anywhere. You can listen to podcasts and on Nami OCS website. We are it's okay to feel you can find me online. My Unknown Speaker 24:46 website is Jennifer lynda.com jnipherlyn.com. And that's the same on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. And if you have any Unknown Speaker 24:56 conversations you want to have or anything you want to talk to us about pretty Our Unknown Speaker 25:00 email is it's okay to feel at Nami vo c.org Unknown Speaker 25:05 That's correct. Yeah. And I am on Instagram I my podcast you me empathy is at human empathy and Instagram. My small business feeling human is at feeling human on Instagram and you can learn about me and the work I do at Fili human.co. That's f e LY human.co. And thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thanks for listening. Enjoy the interview. I'm just gonna read this little outro cuz I like it. And I think you'll like it too. Hey, remember that your feelings are valid. Your feelings are guideposts on your journey. And it's always okay to feel. Unknown Speaker 25:47 Why is it okay? Unknown Speaker 25:56 All right. Hello, welcome to it's okay to feel we are here with Dr. Christina. Talking about therapy today. This is the interview segment of it's okay to feel Dr. Christina has been a guest on my podcast you me empathy. She is wonderful. She is a therapist. And I'm going to just let her introduce herself. Dr. Christina. Welcome. And please introduce yourself, tell the listeners a little bit about the work you do. Unknown Speaker 26:26 Perfect. Well, first, thank you for having me. Um, I am a licensed clinical psychologist based out of the San Francisco Bay Area. Right now I spend my time doing private practice, as well as media contribution to help raise awareness around mental health and hopefully make an impact towards combating stigma. In 2018. I founded the hashtag therapy is cool mental health action campaign, which aims to dispel myths around mental health and help normalize accessing mental health supports such as therapy. In the last two years, we have done an awesome job in raising awareness throughout different social media platforms. And I am happy to announce that we have raised over $10,000 for mental health services across the United States. So that's a little about me, and why I'm so excited to come on here and talk more about mental health and hopefully help people feel like this is finally in your 2020 a topic that we should all be having in our homes, at our workplace and with our friends. Unknown Speaker 27:57 Indeed, well, thank you for sharing that. I want to I want to get it before we get into like therapy and what it is and all that stuff. Like, I want to first hear about your own a little bit about your own sort of personal experience with therapy. Can you share a little bit about that? Unknown Speaker 28:15 Absolutely. So growing up, I would consider myself an anxious kid, yet didn't have the terminology or the awareness that many of us at a young age aren't equipped with so navigated my earlier years feeling a lot of anxiety, but not having the language or the tools to really talk about what it was until I was an adolescent. And a family member had been struggling with trauma and had actually lend itself for multiple people to access mental health support. So this family member had ongoing issues and accessed their own mental health support through therapy and treatment, which then lended itself for myself and other family members to also seek out that support. Initially, I didn't realize that the ongoing things that were unfolding in my household were actually bringing to the surface my own anxiety until I was in therapy. Once I was in therapy, which was approximately in high school, I was able to start to notice that the way my anxiety manifested, was very much physically through stomach aches, headaches, panic attacks, and having access to mental health support and being encouraged by my family to seek it out. Truly lended it For me to start the process of addressing my symptoms and learning tools to cope with all of these external stressors that was happening in my household, thankfully, I was able to truly find the benefits that therapy had to offer. And that marked my path to becoming a therapist, being able to be on both sides of the couch, understanding the worth that therapy is and how amazing it can benefit people's healing process made me want to pursue a career and dedicate my adult years to hopefully have that space for those that might need additional mental health support at some point in their lives. And so I went to school, studied psychology, went straight to grad school and have now as an adult, continue to not only provide therapy, but participate in my own therapy, because it is a opportunity at any point in any of our lives to access support, whether we're struggling or whether we're just needing an extra source of feedback and guidance. Unknown Speaker 31:28 I love that your family was super supportive about this, because it's like a sometimes it's a crapshoot, whether your family will try to help you in like a healthy way. Unknown Speaker 31:40 I think that, unfortunately, at least what I see as a therapist is, a lot of times families are resistant to therapy. And that can be for multiple reasons. It could be because families tend to want to keep struggles and issues in house. It can be because people don't trust the medical field. It can be because maybe they as parents were never given an opportunity to understand their emotions or mental health needs. It can be because limited access, there's so many compounding factors on why family members, especially parents, tend to be hesitant in seeking out support that can be truly beneficial. Unknown Speaker 32:28 Yeah, that does make sense. There are a lot of factors. And you point out, you know, some familial is a big one and you know, just societal, right, like the stigma piece of it. I'm curious, like, Can you just for the listeners, can you talk a little bit about, you know, I know you're doing a specific type of therapy, can you talk about like, any various types of therapy that you're aware of, and you're, you know, capable to talk about? Unknown Speaker 33:00 Absolutely, I am. I view therapy as kind of this umbrella where underneath it, there are different modalities or techniques or interventions that a therapist might pull from or practice within, that can be helpful. So what I mean by that is back when therapy first came into existence, it was very psychoanalytic. And it was very focused on things like the unconscious or our past or childhood. Since therapy has evolved in the field has become bigger. We have been given opportunities to learn different skill sets. To meet the people. We work with Snead's and that can be anything from cognitive behavioral therapy, which believes that you know, our cognitions drive our behaviors, it can be motivational interviewing techniques, which helps people make decisions on ambiguous things that they might be struggling with. A can be Act, which is acceptance and Commitment Therapy, it can be DBT. So throughout the years and the evolution of therapy, we've now been gifted, all these different modalities that are extremely useful for us to have access to because depending on what the presenting struggle is, we now have different treatment modalities to match it with in hopes of back can be most successful. If somebody is coming in with trauma, let's say as their presenting concern. Now we have multiple trauma treatments that can allow that person to process their struggles in a safe and supportive ways back in the day. There was very limited options. In terms of treatment, now and 2020, we continue to seek out different treatment opportunities so that people have a plethora to choose from, and hopefully can find benefit from one of these treatments that are tailored specifically to the issue problem or challenge that brings them into therapy. Unknown Speaker 35:25 Hmm. So I'm curious, like, Jennifer, did you have a question? Sorry. Unknown Speaker 35:32 Go ahead. Unknown Speaker 35:33 No, you go ahead. Unknown Speaker 35:34 No, no, you, you you're carrying out something curiosity Unknown Speaker 35:37 and curious. Unknown Speaker 35:39 Well, I guess I, you know, it's when I hear you talk about the various types of therapy, it does seem very, like it's, it's progressed, right? You know, it's accommodating, you know, it's accommodating to a plethora, right a tapestry of struggle and discomfort, or whatever anything that people are experiencing, you can probably find a therapeutic model that will work for you. And yet, there's this disconnect with the stigma side of it, like, the the social or whatever side of it isn't, you know, isn't following along with that progression? Unknown Speaker 36:18 Absolutely, it feels like if this was, let's say, modern medicine, and we had these new and improved medications to help people treat physical ailments, yet nobody was willing to do it. That's how I see therapy. Oftentimes, we have these new techniques, modalities, interventions, that we in the medical field, no can work, yet the outside population continues to view it as something either negative or shameful, or somehow problematic that somebody would seek out this form of treatment. People tend to associate that as Oh, well, that person must have big issues, or that person must have all these problems, when in turn, what do we all want access to things that can help us be our healthiest and happiest self? Well, we tend to do that physically, right? We go to the doctors, we take vitamins, we, you know, find exercise or joyful movement. There's no stigma attached to that yet, when it's these things that we're doing to take care of our mental health, right, whether it's mindfulness practices, therapy, journaling, suddenly there are these ideas and criticisms that people shouldn't be doing that or quote unquote, shouldn't need that. And to me, that is confusing, because we don't tell people they shouldn't go to the doctor, when they have a broken bone. So why would we tell someone that they shouldn't go to see a therapist, if they're struggling with, let's say, a dramatic event? Unknown Speaker 38:03 Why do you think that is, that's one of my biggest pet peeves, like I don't understand, like I saw, I even tagged known like, that was your one of your Instagram posts recently is that if you fall down and break your leg, you go get a cast, but what they would tell you if you you know, are struggling with something mentally they'd say, like, get over it, or forget about it, or you're too sensitive. And I, for the lay, I don't logically understand like the disconnect of this or like Why? Why people can't accept help in another manner. Unknown Speaker 38:39 I don't think you're alone in in that confusion. I think that unfortunately, mental health struggles, mental health conditions, mental illness, all of that has a very long history of prejudice, prejudicial and discriminatory practices used against it to everything from you know asylums, to incarceration, for you know, mental illness related crimes. We as a society continue to say that, if it's something mentally that you're struggling with, you somehow should already know the tools and be able to navigate it. No matter if it is something small, big or overwhelming. We tend to remove compassion, kindness, support, understanding when it comes to mental health, yet we are able to give that to other populations. And it's a big concern because if we continue to stay in this mindset that mental health issues aren't real mental health issues are important mental health issues aren't debilitating, then people will continue to a suffer in silence and be You know, ultimately live a life where they are in chronic emotional or mental pain. Hmm. Unknown Speaker 40:09 I wonder, I wonder if a component of that is like, when we when we look at someone who has a broken arm, for instance, like we can, as humans kind of look at that and say like, oh, like I can, I can go there. You know, I can empathize with that, like, maybe I've hurt my arm before. And it's, it's, I don't know, it's a lot easier. But when it comes to mental health, like, it's, it's this Mystery Land, right? It's like, and and it's, it's a lot more overwhelming and scary, right? Because it has to do with our minds. It has to do with our brains, you know, and, and I think, my theory, is that a component of that, you know, not willingness or whatever it may be just blockers is that piece of it is it's the fear. It's, it's scary. It's, it's not having the things sort of wrapped up in this box of understanding. Unknown Speaker 41:10 Mm hmm. Yeah. And it's interesting, because I would imagine, every single person at some point in their life will struggle with a mental health issue need or challenge. So I, it's unclear on why at the most basic foundational level, we're not encouraging conversation or education around this. I've talked a lot about how school systems need to have a mental health component to their physical education programs, we need from the start of education, edge age appropriate mental health information being given to children, adolescents, and adults, so that we are continuing to talk about this in a way where people can understand that, yes, one in five Americans struggle with a mental health condition, but five, out of five have mental health, we all have mental health. And if we all have it, then we are all susceptible to struggling with it. At some point in our life. Why are we at the first introduction to education being given an opportunity to learn about our mind to learn about our emotions, to learn about our feelings, so that we can be our own advocate? If at any point in our life, it's something we struggle with? Unknown Speaker 42:39 That's such a good point. I agree. Unknown Speaker 42:45 I am curious what. So I've been to a handful of therapists in my life, I've never found anyone I've connected with ever. So I never ended up continuing to go even knowing that I need it. And it's expensive. And I had trouble spending money on myself. So what would you say to someone who has kind of struggled finding like the right fit, but still needs help? Unknown Speaker 43:09 It is a very real component of therapy, and I think continues to have so many layers associated why finding the right fit with a therapist continues to be such a hurdle for many people, at the most basic level, the therapeutic relationship between the two humans, right, the therapist and the person to camp support client needs to be there for any sort of progression to truly unfold. So what that means is, if you go into your first therapy session, and it's not the right fit, sometimes we can tell, you know, right off the bat, sometimes it takes you know, a few sessions in or longer to really get this idea that hey, why am I continuing to feel uncomfortable in a space that's supposed to allow me to, you know, be vulnerable and talk about the things that are difficult for me? Why am I feeling like I can't open up and continuing to ask ourselves these questions can really help point the idea that as uncomfortable as it is to maybe end therapy, especially when we're knowing that we still need that access to support. It's a disservice to continue in a therapeutic relationship that isn't serving you. So yes, it's hard to you know what I'd say break up with your therapist. It's awkward. It's uncomfortable. People have you know, many reasons on why it's not what they want to do. But for me, and what I tell the people I work with is I I need This to be beneficial so that you can get something out of it. And if I'm not the person that is the right fit for you, then my job ethically is to help you find that person. And to help you find the right fit so that you can feel like therapy is a space for the work to be done versus a space that people just go to once a week, say a few things and then end up leaving and not feeling any benefit from it. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 45:31 yeah, unlike Jennifer, I mean, similar. I, you know, I certainly went through a few therapists before I found one who I've been going to, for the past few years now, and it does, it does take it's uncomfortable. And for the listeners, like the folks listening, you know, know that, like, you're worth seeking that work out and know that also that if the therapist, like Dr. Christina is a professional and ethical at their job, like, they're gonna want what's best for you, and they're, they're not going to take it personally. Unknown Speaker 46:10 Absolutely. Unknown Speaker 46:12 I think it's also like, partially, like, maybe I'm just doing it wrong. Like maybe this is what it's supposed to be since I've never, I think I've gone to maybe 12 different therapists like or maybe more. And I thought I so I go in thinking, Okay, well, maybe, maybe I'm doing something wrong. Unknown Speaker 46:29 Like, hmm. But I think that that's our our fear, right? As humans when we're in relationships, right, whether family, friends, romantic work, therapy, right? In all of our relationships, I think so many of us have this underlying fear of that we're doing things wrong. And even more so when it's a vulnerable relationship, like a therapeutic one. When you go into therapy, you do need a sense of safety and support and connection to really get the full benefit. And if it's not there, right off the bat, I think it's completely human, for us to think is it mean? And sometimes we play a role in that, right? We might be safe guarding our emotions, we might be resistant to being in therapy. But sometimes it's the therapist and we can't internalize the the disconnect as it being us or something wrong with us instead, reminding ourselves that sometimes it's not a right fit, and that we're deserving of finding a therapist that is able to unlock that door that may be worth keeping closed, so that the things that we actually need to talk about can finally be spoken to. Unknown Speaker 47:58 Yeah, yeah. Well said. So what Dr. Kristina, like, for someone who maybe hasn't found their right fit, you know, hasn't found their therapist, like, what do you what do you need to know going into therapy before you even start it for the first time? Like, what do you like? I guess what I'm curious about is like, when you first sit down with someone, a client, what do you what are you telling them? Like, what is like, what kind of space? Are you trying to create? Like, what it because like, I know, for me, like when I first started, you know, and I think we discussed this, like, I was shut down. I you know, it took a while right? And so like, what kind of expectations are you setting? To the client for the first time? Unknown Speaker 48:49 I really like this question, cuz I think it might actually surprise people to hear it, especially if they've never participated in therapy. But the first thing I always say to someone as they're kind of getting comfortable in the therapy, bro, is this is supposed to feel like a conversation. And I say that right off the bat, because I think there's so many misconceptions about therapy. There's so many fears and anxiety related to therapy. And truly, at the most basic point therapy is supposed to be a conversation. It's supposed to be dialogue. It's supposed to be connection. And so when somebody is coming into my office, I let them know that today's supposed to feel like a conversation. It's not going to feel like I'm drilling you for all of these questions. I'm not going to push you past what you're comfortable with. I'm going to allow space for you to ask me questions, and we're going to have a conversation. I want people to know that therapy doesn't need to be the way that you know commonly media portrays where somebody is telling you to lie on a couch and talk about, you know, your mom, that is outdated. I want somebody to come in and talk to me about whatever they're needing to talk to me about, as I gently help guide a conversation, so that we can get to know each other and see and then initial session if this is a good fit. Also, at the the first session, I talked about how that they go home and they think about, is this going to be a good fit? Because the number one goal for me after that first session is a Have I made that person feel comfortable, safe and supported and be? Do they truly know that they have the decision to make around if they want to continue in this space? And if not, how can I support them finding additional resources so that whoever I'm in contact with never feels worse than how they felt entering to me that that has to be part of an initial session and what therapy hopefully feels like ongoing for people, Unknown Speaker 51:09 I love that so much, that would probably feel like so much less heavy, if you knew at the end of the session or whatever, like you at least have a direction to go in. Instead of just feeling like you fell off a cliff. Unknown Speaker 51:23 I think it's actually kind of dangerous. if somebody were to come in for their first intake, right, and it's time sensitive, and they just start unloading, you know, their deepest, darkest pain, I can't ethically just wrap that up and send them back out in the world. Right. And so I want people to come in and start where they're ready and not feel pushed, shoved, pressured into anything. at that first session, we will get to the places we need to get to in a very, you know, structured and clinical way. But this idea that your first therapy session is you unloading you know, your trauma history, or you you know, talking about the things you've never talked about, I think put so much fear in I know, for me, I wouldn't ever want to seek that out, I wouldn't want to be like, Oh, I guess I'm gonna meet somebody for 15 minutes and and tell them all my pain and then go back into the world where I'm still feeling it. I don't I don't find that to be conducive, or clinically appropriate. And so it should feel like a conversation. And my hope, actually, is that all conversations moving forward that I have with the people I work with, even the hard ones still continue to feel safe and appropriate and a dialogue versus me telling them what to do or them you know, under this premise of just sitting there and falling apart. Unknown Speaker 52:52 Hmm. Yeah, I love that. It's like, it's not about putting a bandaid on, it's really about kind of developing the, the medical kit of life. Right. Like, it's like the long term sort of picture of it. Yeah, I love that. I'm curious, like, when, you know, for a second, like, think about, you know, like you, Dr. Christina are pitching a therapy? What are you like, what would you say to someone who's like, I guess just tell me tell me and Jennifer and the listeners like, what what do people get out of therapy? Man, that's Unknown Speaker 53:34 that's like a mini novel. But Unknown Speaker 53:35 yes, Unknown Speaker 53:37 Cliff note of the things they can get out of therapy. But I truly believe that there be in a nutshell is the gift that you can give yourself to truly understand, heal in help who you are. I view therapy as a space that somebody can enter at any point in their life, where they can walk in and whether they believe it can be helpful or not initially, because I work you know, with a lot of people who initially don't think that their view will be helpful, can walk in and at some point, feel seen, heard, validated, carried forward and given space for them to process discuss, he'll learn the things that they need to for themselves. I think of therapy as a space for us to truly be the best we can be. And by understanding ourselves and understanding why we do the things we do, why the way we are things that we want to work on things that we want to have support around, we then get to leave therapy, being more self aware, more equipped for future stressors, and hopefully, understanding the value of who we are, and the relationships we're in, and what we want for ourselves. That was Cliff note version. Unknown Speaker 55:24 So when I hear you say that I, it makes me so happy because I think of therapy in the same way. And I, it's not, it's not a place to like, do these one off fixes, right, it is truly a tool for self discovery and self knowing. And that, in my estimation, that is that is the, that is the thing of life that we as humans should be doing is getting to know ourselves getting to know what fills our heart, getting to know what heals us, and what connects us and, and therapy is a tool like many other tools, therapy is a tool for that discovery. Unknown Speaker 56:03 Absolutely. I think about, you know, the majority of us, myself included, you know, most of our days or weeks or years are kind of on autopilot, where we're just doing the things we need to do. We're working, we're sleeping, we're eating, and it's on repeat, and therapy is one of the very few places I found where I get to stop autopilot, and truly give myself time, attention, love, dedication, awareness to what I'm feeling, how am I feeling it? And and what do I want to do with the information that my feelings and emotions are sending me? I think that yes, there P is absolutely a place to go when we're struggling with our mental health. But we're in crisis when we've had a loss when we've experienced trauma. And therapy is the space, if we want to get to know ourselves more, if we want to practice into into inspection, if we want to discover maybe parts of ourselves that have been closed off. It serves so many purposes. And so that is why I think it is a tool that should be available and accessible to everybody not a luxury that can only be had if your insurance pays for it. Or if you have a financial stability that allows you to render a service that is useful for everybody. Unknown Speaker 57:35 I totally agree. That's I think the hardest part, I'm definitely for me, but I'm sure for other people is that, you know, you need help. But it's it's a financial sacrifice a lot of the time and like, should you spend that on yourself? part of you says yes, part of you says maybe that's not responsible. Unknown Speaker 57:54 therapy and medical coverage continues to be such a hurdle. I could spend hours talking about the system at play and how broken it is, under the guise that it ever worked, which I don't think it ever has. I don't think that the mental health care system is for the people that need it. I think it's for a lot of other things. And a the cracks are so visible that people I mean as morbid as it sounds, people continue to die because we don't have a mental health care system that can support the needs of our society. Unknown Speaker 58:36 Yeah, it is devastating. And I but I you know, I hold on to the hope of, you know, you doing hashtag therapy is cool. You talking about, you know, Jennifer having conversations like this, myself having conversations like this, and showing people hopefully that, you know, that these things are okay to talk about. And, you know, therapy is cool, you know, and talking about our mental health is important. And hopefully, you know, in the near future here we have, you know, an improvement to the medical system because you're right, it is deeply flawed. Unknown Speaker 59:16 Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Unknown Speaker 59:19 Well, I'm Dr. Christina. I so appreciate your voice and your your noggin. And just just all of it I so appreciate you and the work you do. Tell the listeners a little bit about I guess where they can learn more from me where they can connect with you. Unknown Speaker 59:40 I like the noggin. Thank you. I was trying to keep my laugh. Yes, So currently, you can find me on Instagram under at Dr. Chris Stena underscore, you can also learn more about the hashtag therapy is cool mental health action campaign either on that Instagram handle which is hashtag spelled out, therapy is cool or on our website www dot hashtag therapies cool calm. There you can see updates on where we are donating that month's proceeds you can see pictures of people all over the world wearing their hashtag therapy's cool tote or shirt or D cow. That's a really great way to connect and learn about all the ways that this campaign is hopefully allowing for further conversations around mental health and D stigmatizing mental health care such as therapy so that people can be okay, asking for help. And that there's other people rocking their therapy is cool saying we're safe person that you can talk to. Unknown Speaker 1:01:07 Amazing. Well, that's, that's amazing listeners, all of those links will be in the show notes for this episode, which is up at nanny oc.org. Hopefully, we don't even know. But you can listen and connect with the show over on Instagram at nanny OC. And Give. Give Dr. Kristina a follow. And thank you, Dr. Tina, thank you for being a part of it's okay to feel with Jennifer and I, we really appreciate it. Unknown Speaker 1:01:42 That was a really good chat. And I really do love your Instagram I Unknown Speaker 1:01:44 love. Unknown Speaker 1:01:46 I love the simplicity of a lot of them, which I I don't often love the simplicity of a lot of Instagrams but yours are so like the one I was talking about earlier. I mean, it's fascinating and sad and fascinating. Unknown Speaker 1:01:58 I appreciate that feedback. I always tell people, you know, I joined in an attempt to raise awareness and I write these posts kind of right before day of of just things that I wish people had talked to me about or told me about, or issues that I see, you know, presently, I think that there's a benefit of having mental health focused accounts out there, not as a replacement for anything but more as an educational tool so that people who maybe don't have access to resources who don't know anything about mental health education can at least come across a platform where we're talking about it, and we're having conversations that are open and constructive. And you know, I see people in the comment sections just truly lifting each other up and, and telling people that it's okay to ask for help and it's okay to struggle with your mental health and it's okay to not be okay. This is the world that I hope we can continue to create so that the generations that follow don't have to struggle in silence, and can know that help exists and asking for it is a sign of strength. Unknown Speaker 1:03:12 Thank you so much for listening. If you love the episode, we would love for you to subscribe and leave us a review. For more information or just to say hello, head over to Instagram at Nami underscore OC and ami underscore OC or say hi to no at you me empathy. Or me, Jennifer, Jennifer Lynn Janie and I peeked at ci RLYN fakes Have a beautiful day Transcribed by https://otter.ai